Bluetooth as direct reticulum interface #716
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Is it technically possible to have bluetooth as a direct reticulum interface (not for using it to connect to RNode or some other device)? Briar seems to be able to send and receive messages via bluetooth without pairing or any setup (setup that is not the initial key exchange). Bluetooth is available on every phone so I think it will be good if the project can take advantage of this. It will also make playing with this network way easier (and more interesting than just using the tcp interfaces) and maybe more popular. |
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Replies: 9 comments 8 replies
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It's very possible. |
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Thank you. Can you tell me who is working on it? Can I find it being discussed somewhere? Is there any code committed? I can't seem to easily find any of this being discussed, apart from this one #127 . |
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It's in early stages (not public yet), I believe @regulad is working on it. |
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Yes, this is correct. If you'd like to see a very rough draft in a
different contact, check out this repo:
https://github.com/regulad/BlueHeaven. Note that the code here is
unnecessary high-level, it's written mostly with Kotlin coroutines. The
final product will be mostly just access through pyjnius.
…On Sun, Feb 16, 2025 at 2:16 PM Linux in a Bit ***@***.***> wrote:
It's in early stages (not public yet), I believe @regulad
<https://github.com/regulad> is working on it.
From what he's said in the Matrix room, it's going to be Android-only at
first, but it will be possible to implement the wire format for other
systems in the future.
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With the advent of bitchat, this topic is becoming more interesting. Can we learn anything from the way bitchat is implemented? |
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At a glance, it doesn't really seem to do anything Briar doesn't already do... |
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As is the decision to develop natively for Apple platforms.
…On Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 7:43 AM Linux in a Bit ***@***.***> wrote:
Ah, but the use of BLE for *everything* is an interesting decision.
https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar/-/issues/1033
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Despite the repo and "white paper" for BitChat, there is no PFS demonstrated either. The "perfect" in "perfect forward secrecy" isn't an adjunctive. It pisses me off to no extent that one of the worst possible implementation of a system can get that much attention in so little time when it fundamentally fails to understand what the problem with decentralized communications are. |
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As for things that can be brought into RNS, here's how I see it:
RNS right now needs a little more work on modularity before I can implement
a durable BLE interface. More complex interfaces like BLE and future
self-healing TCPIP interfaces (mDNS-based/DHT-based; like I've discussed in
the chatroom previously) would become cumbersome to develop inside of the
already very mature monolithic RNS stack.
I think the best option is to develop a better method of loading external
interfaces than just loading loose python files from the config directory.
Currently, they would have to be packaged with something like `stickytape`,
and cannot hook into `python4android` properly for distribution with
Sideband. This was particularly annoying when I was trying to use `bless` &
`bleak` for BLE.
In my experience the best option for monkeypatching code reliably into a
python package is something like what discord.py does with its
discord.py-ext packages, where a module in the package like discord.ext is
scanned for any submidules installed into discord.ext.*, where they are
then imported dynamically and made available for runtime use. RNS wouldn't
even have to scan, installed modules could just be declared by the
configuration.
A system like this would also allow interfaces to be developed under
licenses like GPLv3, and would maintain the dependency-free nature of core
RNS.
…On Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 1:40 PM Zenith ***@***.***> wrote:
Despite the repo and "white paper" for BitChat, there is no PFS
demonstrated either. The "perfect" in "perfect forward secrecy" isn't an
adjunctive. It pisses me off to no extent that one of the *worst*
possible implementation of a system can get that much attention in so
little time when it fundamentally fails to understand *what* the problem
with decentralized communications are.
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Fantastic view. Maybe this is a solution that itself creates too many
cascading problems.
I also read he ... <sigh> ... 'vibe coded' it.
…On Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 1:40 PM Zenith ***@***.***> wrote:
Despite the repo and "white paper" for BitChat, there is no PFS
demonstrated either. The "perfect" in "perfect forward secrecy" isn't an
adjunctive. It pisses me off to no extent that one of the *worst*
possible implementation of a system can get that much attention in so
little time when it fundamentally fails to understand *what* the problem
with decentralized communications are.
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As it turns out, the yapping slop bullshit generator, is in fact, a yapping slop bullshit generator. I hope this can provide some clarity for people bitching and whining about the "No LLM" clause. |
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There’s a reason I try to clarify the LLM license clause in my pseudo-PR here. |
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Omg. Lol. I stay out of the loop for a few days and this is what I wake up to. |
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It's a vibe! 🫂
…On Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 8:00 PM markqvist ***@***.***> wrote:
I also read he ... ... 'vibe coded' it.
As it turns out, the yapping slop bullshit generator, is in fact, a
yapping slop bullshit generator.
https://www.inc.com/chloe-aiello/security-flaws-with-jack-dorseys-bitchat-highlight-a-system-problem-with-vibe-coding/91212412
(archive <https://archive.ph/wip/4TOqR>)
I hope this can provide some clarity for people bitching and whining about
the "No LLM" clause.
Omg. Lol. I stay out of the loop for a few days and this is what I wake up
to.
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I am interested in implementing a simple BLE interface with bless and bleak that would work between x86 linux computers (such as laptops). I suspect this should be doable, but I wanted to double check that this hasn't already been done or if there are any existing implementations for android that I could start from, in the interests of compatibility. Also, please feel free to let me know if this is a completely useless endeavor or if I should take a different approach. I want too use Bluetooth to connect to an offline computer across the room (the network config and physical setup in our optics research lab prevents WiFi/Ethernet/Serial from being viable). |
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This is possible, but it wouldn't be easy to fit into reticulum nor
distribute it. Check the comment i left earlier on this discussion about
loading interfaces at runtime.
…On Wed, Jul 30, 2025, 10:52 AM Kaedon Cleland-Host ***@***.***> wrote:
I am interested in implementing a simple BLE interface with bless
<https://github.com/kevincar/bless> and bleak
<https://github.com/hbldh/bleak> that would work between x86 linux
computers (such as laptops). I suspect this should be doable, but I wanted
to double check that this hasn't already been done or if there are any
existing implementations for android that I could start from, in the
interests of compatibility. Also, please feel free to let me know if this
is a completely useless endeavor or if I should take a different approach.
I want too use Bluetooth to connect to an offline computer across the room
(the network config and physical setup in our optics research lab prevents
WiFi/Ethernet/Serial from being viable).
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I agree, modularity would be very nice. I don't think I have the skill set to design (or even propose) a new system like that though. I might just implement a fork of reticulum for my use case. Then once the modularity has been worked out, hopefully it won't be too difficult to port over. |
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It's very possible.
The only problem is that Bluetooth/BLE was implemented in a way that makes this very hard to do, especially on Android.
I don't have specifics, but I can tell you that others are actually starting work on it ;)